How can i help my horse develope the right headset?
I’ve been working with my horse on dressage for a while, just our little stuff we do inbetween the days that we’re jumping. I’ve used draw reins on him to help him learn how i want his head to be, and how he should know when i want him ot tuck his head in, and arch up his neck. He does however, poke his nose out a lot, and then after a while he’ll just lose everything.
I’ve just recently started my friends horse on the same exact work, but her horse goes right into it, and holds it in the exact position, does it have to do with training, the horse, the bit? Is there something else i could do with my horse to teach him to bring his nose IN? I use a kimberwicke with him, i might be switching to a doulbe hinged kimberwicke with a copper roller.
Next time could you please indicate the discipline that you are wanting to do. I have to assume 3-day eventing and you are wanting the "correct" headset for the dressage phase.
Firstly you are expecting that this horse knows what you are asking or that you are even asking correctly. From your statement it appears that he gets his headset for a short period of time, hence I would assume that you are somewhat communicating correctly. However that is only the case if it is achieved through light contact and please no sawing on the mouth.
Secondly, your horse is not a machine where you insert $0.25 and it goes around. You obviously have assumed that all the correct muscle and tendon structure has been built for him to have the correct headset. Yet you state that he likes to poke his nose out, which would indicate to me that is his preferred headset. He holds what you want for a bit, then loses it more and more as you go along. You are expecting that he is a machine, the muscles and tendons must be built up over time, they can not be forced past that point of exhaustion. It is the same as someone starting Yoga today and being expected to do everything right away and hold the positions for extended periods of time. You would have sympathy for them and not expect them to do it perfectly, so what is different with your horse? Rome was not built in a day and working with horses takes time as well. They are not machines.
Why are you changing bits? Why does your horse need a kwimberwicke? Your quest with horses is always to try to get them as light and responsive as possible. Achieving that is through lots and lots of flat-work and educating their mouths in order to be able to have the horse response in nicer bits.
In regards to draw reins, most of the time they are not used as originally intended. They are to use as an aid to the reins to put additional pressure on the mouth to encourage the horse to change it’s headset, which can take time. They however seem to get used to force a horse’s head into a position and hold it there. Imagine what you would do if that happened to you? You would move your head to that position (like being punished) and when the pressure came off you would go back to that comfortable position. Instead with the draw reins, encourage them to move their head into position a bit at a time and when they move their head towards the goal that you want, hold that there for a while and then relax the draw rein to see if they will hold it there for a couple circles, etc, without the artificial aid creating that headset.
Actually, I am reading one of John Lyons books right now. He says that ANY problem in the saddle can be fixed from the ground. He also does not use artificial aids such as tie downs etc etc. He wants the horse to learn to do things on his own through clear communication on our part, rather than use restraint or pain to get him to do things our way. I really suggest reading one of his books before you switch to a more advanced bit. Often times, the bit has nothing to do with the problem in the first place. Also, I have been reading a lot on Sylvia Scott’s natural horse training methods and have had great success when using them on my own horses. I will send you the link below….if you look under the frequently asked questions section, there is some really good information in there. Also, it is nearly impossible to diagnose this problem and work on correcting it without knowing your horse or your situation. Your best bet is to seek the advice of a qualified trainer in your area. What worked for someone else’s horse might not work for yours and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hope this helps and good luck with your horse.
http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/
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I’m going to explain this the best I can, use whatever bit your horse is comfortable with, or maybe go back to a simple snaffle that is a little bit heavy. In the round pen, as if you are going to lunge him, but don’t have a rope on him that you can hang onto cause that will send him mixed messages, you want him to concentrate on his headset not your hands, make sure you have a very long,(long enough to go from his mouth to hit butt, maybe longer) medium to lightweight rope. now, put your horses headstall and bit on him as if you were going to ride him, now attache one end of the rope to one side of the bit and take it back INBETWEEN his front legs then up and around his barrel where his girth would go then let it fall down to the other side and thread it back inbetween his front leg then attache it to the other side of the bit. Make sure you tighten it to the adjustment in which you want him to carry his head. When he is standing still you should be able to tighten it and he will dip in his nose and arch his neck to the point you want him to, then securly fasten the rope to the other side of the bit. Send him off around the pen, remember do not attach any other ropes onto him as this will throw him off. by tying him up like this there is constant pressure that our hands cannot give, and when he tries to throw up his nose it will pull on his back and shoulders throwing him off balance and horses hate to be off balance as in the wild it could mean death. work with him like this for as long as it takes for him to learn, no less than a week tho, and do it everyday for about 45 minutes and if you could an hour, but no more than an hour because your horse will cramp and become frustrated. when you see your horse carry himself ‘properly’ for about 5 goes around the pen, stop him and release one side of the rope as a reward. this seems long but it worked wonders for my mare
ps, DO NOT USE A HARSHER BIT AS WITH THIS TRAINING CAN REALLY HURT A HORSES MOUTH IN AN ADVANCE BIT! THOSE BITS WERE MEANT FOR A SLIGHT TOUCH OF HUMAN HANDS, NOT A 1500 POUND HORSE PULLING ON IT!! good luck to you and your horse
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horse trainer 6 years, owned horses all my life
I agree with rockerchic. John Lyons has some of the best problem solving solution around. And while I have used the same thing that Natasha describes, if you are not experienced in this, do not attempt it. If you tieup your horse wrong, you can cause them to flip over and maybe injure or kill themselves. Another thing you may think about. If you are using this horse for more than one event, you may need to switch bits for dressage. Some horses associate a bit with a certain event and then get confused when you try a new event with the same bit. But I would not go to a harsher bit, jut a different one. This may help. Remember this: A bigger bit does not make a better horseman. Good Luck!
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Horse Owner for 35 years
Switching bits might help. I had a friend that did dressage and her instructor told her to sqeeze with her legs to push her horse onto the bit. You might try that.
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Next time could you please indicate the discipline that you are wanting to do. I have to assume 3-day eventing and you are wanting the "correct" headset for the dressage phase.
Firstly you are expecting that this horse knows what you are asking or that you are even asking correctly. From your statement it appears that he gets his headset for a short period of time, hence I would assume that you are somewhat communicating correctly. However that is only the case if it is achieved through light contact and please no sawing on the mouth.
Secondly, your horse is not a machine where you insert $0.25 and it goes around. You obviously have assumed that all the correct muscle and tendon structure has been built for him to have the correct headset. Yet you state that he likes to poke his nose out, which would indicate to me that is his preferred headset. He holds what you want for a bit, then loses it more and more as you go along. You are expecting that he is a machine, the muscles and tendons must be built up over time, they can not be forced past that point of exhaustion. It is the same as someone starting Yoga today and being expected to do everything right away and hold the positions for extended periods of time. You would have sympathy for them and not expect them to do it perfectly, so what is different with your horse? Rome was not built in a day and working with horses takes time as well. They are not machines.
Why are you changing bits? Why does your horse need a kwimberwicke? Your quest with horses is always to try to get them as light and responsive as possible. Achieving that is through lots and lots of flat-work and educating their mouths in order to be able to have the horse response in nicer bits.
In regards to draw reins, most of the time they are not used as originally intended. They are to use as an aid to the reins to put additional pressure on the mouth to encourage the horse to change it’s headset, which can take time. They however seem to get used to force a horse’s head into a position and hold it there. Imagine what you would do if that happened to you? You would move your head to that position (like being punished) and when the pressure came off you would go back to that comfortable position. Instead with the draw reins, encourage them to move their head into position a bit at a time and when they move their head towards the goal that you want, hold that there for a while and then relax the draw rein to see if they will hold it there for a couple circles, etc, without the artificial aid creating that headset.
References :
All the other suggestins, with the exception of changing the bit, are very good and correct.
My instructor told me to use my back and legs to get the horse to collect himself. DON’T use your hands as the horse will lean on the bit and make for a hard mouth.
Using your back and legs drive the horse to his forward end and let him "carry himself". The driving will get him to learn how to carry himself lightly and "on the bit" without using your hands.
Eventually you will not need to drive him so hard as he will learn that his forward motion will "reward " him with the relief of the pressure from the bit.
Good luck, hope all the advice here helps.
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Riding Instructor
Oh my WORD!!!! You’ve gone for the heavy artillery bit wise!!!! draw reins AND a kimberwicke?????? just a TAD excessive!!!!
Now, do you REALLY want him to "tuck his nose in", or do you mean "On the bit"?? the two are polar opposites!
A horse can learn to tuck his nose in, and never actually be working correctly. You say you have been doing a bit of Dressage. My mom is a dressage judge, and this is just some of the stuff that she has taught me:
Start from the beginning, sorry, boring but true. get him OUT of the kimberwicke and the draw reins, for flat work anyway, and start to use your legs to engage the rear. you may have to get an instructor to help you from the ground, as it IS difficult to feel what is actually happening behind you, and perhaps you don’t know what it is you’re SUPPOSED to be feeling. (i know,because i used to be TERRIBLE at flat work!!! it drove my mom and MANY instructors to the point of murder!!!)
The horse "on the bit" will feel engaged and balanced, not just with his head tucked into his chest. We can ALL force a horses head into it’s chest. But possibly your horse doesn’t have an EASY conformation that allows it to work correctly. Which is where an instructor will be of enormous benefit to both you and your horse.
You say you recently started your friends horse on the same program. You cannot compare your horse to hers. it’s not fair on your horse. Your friends horse probably has had a different start with flat work, and probably has a different shape. so PLEASE don’t compare, bear in mind that not all horses are natural athletes and some take more time than others.
Get outside help! it will leave you feeling less frustrated!!! Good luck!
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You might can try geting another set of bits. The bits might be too tight too. I have a horse that is bad about shaking his head and I losend the chain on my bridle and he stopped shaking his head so bad. It also might help if you let the reins loser and don’t hold them to tight where he don’t fell comfortable.
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You might start -in a plain snaffle-having him give to the bit with you doing simple exercises of pressure and release.Try flexing his head to the left and right at first. As soon as he "gives" immediately release the pull/pressure off the bit.This is a good place to start.
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keep a tight hold on the reins & kinda pull up. just not hard enough to make him back up. give him enough rein to be able to stretch his head out when hes running!
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Your horse already HAS the correct headset. What you think of it is inconsequential. You’d have a shitfit if your boyfriend/husband, whatever insisted you walked around in a position that was uncomfortable for you, wouldn’t you?
As for poking his nose out, that’s his way of letting you know you’re pulling on his mouth too much.
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Years of experience!