In dressage, why are so many horses’ heads behind the vertical? Rollkur?
I see so many dressage horses nowadays (even Grand Prix level horses!) way behind the vertical. Most of the time they’re also flexing incorrectly instead of at the poll. Now, correct me if I’m wrnng, but I was always taught that your horse is supposed to be around 5 degrees in front of the vertical, NOT with his chin practically perpendicular to his chest.
I actually found this video on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUUeRFZt8ec
Does that horse look happy or relaxed to you with his switchtail and pinned ears? OMG, someone yank Anky off him NOW. My horse would throw me off if I ever did that to him.
Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this (I guess the actual term is ‘rollkur’)?
The simplest answer is Anky rides like pants. My nine year old stepdaughter rides better than Anky, and has her ponies going a lot nicer!
Incorrect movement in dressage starts at the grassroots levels. Riders are punished for having their horses going above the bit, even if the horse is stepping up beautifully, so the trend is to encourage (ie, force) the nose down which is to the detriment of the steps. Now, everyone can crow on about how dreadful that is, and I have seen and heard countless riders do just that – but actually, few people know when their horse is moving properly and when it’s not. They don’t have lessons, or they get lessons from other people who don’t really know. The situation is not helped by judges who are too ignorant, too lazy, or too scared of being different, to actually mark someone down for riding like sh!t. You can get a lot of marks in dressage for being precise: if your circles are perfectly circular, and you canter exactly at the marker, you will gain marks. Nothing to do with actually riding well or having a nicely moving horse, and you can win by being precise and riding like sh!t.
I know grand prix dressage riders who can’t let go of the "ideal" of the lower head, and bring on their novice horses to have the nose down before doing anything about the legs. Of course it’s wrong, and people are lazy and can’t be bothered to ride. Rollkur is the big buzzword at the moment, and it’s very fashionable to be all het up about it, but nothing is going to change until people can be bothered to learn to ride correctly – and why should they, if you can win by riding really badly?
Intentional Rollkur and working extremely behind the vertical is incorrect and steps are being taken to keep this out of the competition ring and the majority of riders and trainers see the error in its ways.
Here is a video of Anky explaining why she uses these methods, which should be interesting (I’m going to watch it as soon as I’m done typing this!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svOBsSdjUvU
In dressage, horses should ideally be on or slightly above the vertical. Behind the vertical is just as bad as above the vertical. In lower level horses, they may prefer to go slightly behind the vertical because it can be easier than being truly on the vertical and fully engaged. This is simply a sign of lack of strength, not a training issue, but it is very different than holding the horse with his nose to his chest!
Have you seen the movie "If Horses Could Speak"? It explains a lot about the issues with Rollkur and anatomy of the working horse. The book "Tug of War: Classical vs. ‘Modern’ Dressage" is also good at explaining more about these things.
I also want to add that "on the bit" and a correct frame come from push and movement from behind, not just pulling or holding the head down. A horse that’s truly engaged behind will bring his back up, and that brings the head down.
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because 95% of dressage riders don’t know what they are doing! Rollkur has its place IN THE RIGHT HANDS! my trainer used it softly on my horse, but he didn’t have any contact with my horses face and the only reason for using it was to get him to relax and soften in the poll and jaw, almost instantly after my horse softly settled back on his hindquarters chewed softly and moved quietly. Its also only supposed to be used for a SHORT moment not held in place for hours on end. If a horse does it in nature its ok…horses DO rollkur in the fields but not for an entire lap around the field.
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Anky sucks and is a second-rate rider. There is a reason her students ride around on horses with blue tongues.
Rollkur is often mistaken for LDR (low-deep-round) training which looks similar but is perfectly humane AND the horse is not held in that gawd-awful contorted position. A$$hats that force their horses into hyperflexion are simply imitating a very complex training method developed by German trainers and taking shortcuts to do so because they lack the skill to do it properly.
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I know nothing about dressage but I can tell you what she was doing looks nothing like what I think of when I think dressage. That horse looks uncomfortable and frustrated and I can’t believe that anyone would think that was beautiful. What are people thinking when they do this kind of stuff to their horses- and that goes for any discipline, not just dressage…..
Edit- Who TD’d me?? I admited I didn’t know anything about dressage & I basically said what most others are saying- what that woman is doing to that horse is not natural and beautiful like dressage is meant to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!
References :
The simplest answer is Anky rides like pants. My nine year old stepdaughter rides better than Anky, and has her ponies going a lot nicer!
Incorrect movement in dressage starts at the grassroots levels. Riders are punished for having their horses going above the bit, even if the horse is stepping up beautifully, so the trend is to encourage (ie, force) the nose down which is to the detriment of the steps. Now, everyone can crow on about how dreadful that is, and I have seen and heard countless riders do just that – but actually, few people know when their horse is moving properly and when it’s not. They don’t have lessons, or they get lessons from other people who don’t really know. The situation is not helped by judges who are too ignorant, too lazy, or too scared of being different, to actually mark someone down for riding like sh!t. You can get a lot of marks in dressage for being precise: if your circles are perfectly circular, and you canter exactly at the marker, you will gain marks. Nothing to do with actually riding well or having a nicely moving horse, and you can win by being precise and riding like sh!t.
I know grand prix dressage riders who can’t let go of the "ideal" of the lower head, and bring on their novice horses to have the nose down before doing anything about the legs. Of course it’s wrong, and people are lazy and can’t be bothered to ride. Rollkur is the big buzzword at the moment, and it’s very fashionable to be all het up about it, but nothing is going to change until people can be bothered to learn to ride correctly – and why should they, if you can win by riding really badly?
References :